Paypal Buyer Protection on EBay is Worthless
The title pretty much says it. Paypal Buyer Protection will not help you if you have a problem and need to dispute a purchase on EBay. Simple as that.
I was looking to buy a copy of Microsoft Office Home and Student Edition. I looked at my favorite places: Tiger Direct, Amazon, BestBuy and decided to have a look at EBay, though I’m always a little leery of EBay. It had what looked like a legitimate copy from a legitimate seller. It was a UK seller, with almost 500 sales and over a 98% positive rating. The description said the item was a retail copy, not OEM, which was important to me because the retail version can be legally installed on three machines, but the OEM version is only for one machine. Everything looked good, but I was still skeptical. Finally, one thing tipped the balance: it was guaranteed by Paypal Buyer Protection. I’m a fan of Paypal, so it seemed like a good bet.
A day later, I got notification that my software had shipped. The email was funny — several characters that wouldn’t render. Uh oh. So I clicked the tracking info and it was shipping from Shanghai! Okay, could be a drop shipper, but it wasn’t looking good. I logged into my EBay account and all trace of the purchase had been wiped clean. The seller account was gone. All information about my purchase was gone. Double uh oh.
So I call EBay. They can’t help because the seller has been kicked out and they won’t arbitrate at this point. They tell me I will have to wait until the item arrives and then take it up with Paypal if there’s a problem.
The item arrives and it’s a recordable DVD with a handwritten product code on it. I call Paypal and they will not cover it until I return it. I’m livid. This person is an obvious criminal without a let to stand on. If I had put it on my credit card, I would cancel my charge and end of story. With Paypal, not only do I need to return the item, I need to return it with tracking. As it turns out, the cheapest way of tracking the item will only track it out of the US, but not to the seller’s door. To do that, I would need to spend more than the cost of a the software at Amazon.
Alas, it’s a sunk costs question. No way to recoup my money. So I went back to Amazon and bought it there. Brand new, retail version, three licesnes that validated with Microsoft. Only about $5 more than the Chinese ripoff artist.
Lessons learned:
- Never buy software on EBay. There’s just no way to tell unless it’s a merchant you know.
- Avoid Paypal for online purchases and use a real credit card with reasonable dispute policies
- Scammers are making brands more powerful and making it hard for small merchants to make a living on the web.
Filed under: Consumer Chronicles
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Wish I had read this message before I place the order from ebay. I too, was hesitate to order but then saw the buyer protection program and thinks I am protected. Turns out the only way paypal buyer protection program will work if you sent the item back with tracking. The item is from China and it would cost $27 just to have a tracking number. Lesson learn, never believe what paypal says about your purchase are 100% protected.
Sorry you got stuck too. All I can say is tell people about it. Send them to this page or a similar one. It definitely blows, because one thing I like about Paypal is I don’t give my credit card number to people. Too bad their dispute resolution is so worthless.
Hi!
Dear,sir!
I’ve paid DHgate with paypal for a particular item Oct. 13, 2009 10:56:16 PDT
Transaction ID: 8R7070062N151135G,but the Company to date do not provide any clear answer.One day I receive
confirmation ,that the money has been received, but after a few hours the opposite pattern, that money has been not
received.Pay pal multiplexed, has confirmed that the account has money dhgate is creditedi.On my questions DHgate not
answered.Can you something help me,please?Or ,must I write to Minisrty of Justice, the People’s Republic of China
Address: No.10 Nandajie, Chaoyangmen, Chaoyang District, Beijing 100020, China and National Bureau of Corruption
Prevention of China
NO.2 Guang’An Men Nan Jie, Xuanwu Disrict, Beijing 100053
What is better?
Also note that Paypal Buyer Protection, limited as it is, is ONLY for items purchased on eBay. I bought two ipods on iOffer for $136 U.S. and paid by Paypal. I received a string of plastic beads. I filed a dispute and claim with Paypal, but was told that there was nothing they would do. Had I paid by credit card, I could have disputed the charge for non-receipt. But because Paypal facilitated the payment, I have no recourse: if I challenge the charge, Paypal will simply re-charge my card.
Paypal is NOT the safe, reliable payment system that they pretend to be. I got scammed and got NO support. Paypal is the only place where the seller’s account information can be accessed, and they won’t do a damn thing. Too bad I filled out their customer support survey BEFORE this transaction. My answers would have been VERY different!
Viktor, I wish I knew. My purchase was not that expensive and figured the Chinese authorities, who normally pay no attention to pirated software, would not care.
Rob, you learned the lesson I learned. It’s sad really, because I have a vacation rental property and Paypal offers a great system for small-timers like me (but for a bit more money, does Costco). It’s really convenient for me to send out invoices and manage payments. And I still use Paypal to send money around and make purchases with trusted merchants.
But Paypal sells this whole thing like
1. They are giving your some peace of mind with Buyer Protection, when it is vastly inferior to anything offered by credit cards.
2. They are keeping your information more private than the credit card companies. I don’t know about that, but if I keep my paypal balance small and don’t link it to my main bank account, my downside risk should be low.
I had a problem with a website that I bought items from. I only got part of my order ( I ordered books and was sent only 3 of the 4 that I ordered) After I paid, the company told me the book was back ordered even though they have these books listed “in stock” on their website. The company is refusing to contact me in regards to my request for a refund on the book I never received so I filed a paypal dispute, and paypal won’t help me because I didn’t purchase the items from ebay. They told me that their buyer protection only covers items bought on ebay. I think as long as I use their service, they should protect my purchase no matter where I buy from. I am highly disappointed in paypal. I kept getting “auto responses” with no real person to answer my emails. Paypal used to be a lot better than this.
[WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us ‘0 which is not a hashcash value.
I ALWAYS pay with a credit card, paypal is no use they never get the money back. So i pay with a credit card with a “safe” number and i am at ease with my purchases. BUT to be honest i have gone more to amazone than ebay better protection and customer service
ebay Buyer Beware!
I don’t think very many buyers realize that they, not the seller,
may assume the risk for items under $250 that are not
delivered.
As in – you won the auction – you paid, and then you never got
the item. And then ebay basically tells you to go to hell when
you contact their resolution center.
No item. No money. You lose. Thanks sucker.
Ebay’s “eBay Buyer Protection” has some VERY fine print.
See if you can find it.
Just saying. Check it out.
Well Don, that pretty much sums it up. I actually ran into a Paypal employee at a conference and he pretty much confirmed that there are a lot of complaints about the PP Buyer Protection… and EBay Buyer Protection is a joke, but from what I hear from sellers, the seller protection is pretty crappy too.
Small tip, I ve been conned a few times now using paypal. If you get a copied DVD (as oppose to the gen one you ordered), company claiming to unlock ure phone, then telling you to go to a phone shop. Or any other purchase that is now what you paid for. Dont mess around or waste your time saying you received it. File a non-receipt claim, fraudelent sellers usally dont have proof of postage or dont want to even admit to the post office what their selling. In all the 5 cases I filed in the last 4 years Ive won and the seller cant do jack. You can even stick their rubbish back in the post to them with no postage on, they have the option to go and collect and pay for it then. Dont be honest where these criminals are concerned.
I always think honesty is the best policy, but in the face of these cheats and thieves, your approach sounds like the only one that could possibly work.
I just got off a phone call with paypal today. Make that a few. The first go-round, they put me on hold for 20 minutes, while their “specialist” was checking details for me. Finally, when I got to conclude the conversation, they assured me I would be protected in the case of fraud (not just on e-bay), but if I send money for goods that I do not receive, or someone on my behalf does not receive– I will get my money back, if I file a dispute. They also assured me that even if the vendor/merchant has fled the country, closed their account, etc., Paypal will foot the bill, if need be.
I am a seller on ebay and was looking for other merchandise to sell for. I’ve been approached by numerous individuals to sell their wares. As I have all excellent feedback, and do provide honesty and good service, I’m skeptical of these sellers, and try to investigate with each one, starting with a phone conversation, some probing on company, and asking for samples. I can’t even get that far.
Basically I think that UK seller that was mentioned here was suckered in like some are trying to do to me, and it was probably no fault of his own. He set up relations with a foreign seller and got duped too–meanwhile his account got closed down, and the original merchandiser is off to another ebay seller, well-rated with history. They are finding them all over. I am seeing them on freelancer.com.
They have nothing to lose. I have my history and reputation to lose. I just don’t want to lose my money also.
I purchased software from a woman back around the holidays. It was for regedit. I used it with no apparent problem, although the seller wasn’t the best at customer service, and I had to wait a while to receive this magic number (an odd assortment of characters I thought) to legitimize the software (bought very cheaply, by the way==about $7.00). When I tried to use it again, I couldn’t. It was limited to a trial or something like that. This seller was shut down, I got my money back, but I suspect she didn’t even know what hit her. Just a suspicion as she later popped up following me on twitter, oddly. She didn’t seem the scamming sort, and I felt like she was used as an intermediary as I’m trying to be–selling other people’s things.
Probably not much worth the risk.
Syl, I don’t think there’s any possible way that a seller sends you digital goods and then later a registration key without that being an illegal transaction. Software will get sold one of two ways
– either an affiliate relation that takes the buyer to the vendor site and the salesperson gets a commission through an affiliate deal, but the purchase and issue of the registration key all take place on the vendor site,
– it comes in a nice box and with a registration key on the proof of purchase.
The woman you’re talking about in your last example is a software pirate or is utterly ignorant of the basics of copyright law and is aiding and abetting software pirates.
It’s possible in my case that the UK seller was a drop shipper who got scammed, but more than likely, I don’t think there ever was a UK seller and it was a profile from this guy in China.
I must say, it’s a very smart scam – figure out what return shipping cost is, find a product where the legitimate retail price is slightly below that price, send illegal goods, and then let the customer complain and try to get his money back, which will cost him more than just forgetting the whole thing and going down to Best Buy and getting a real copy. I should say that part of the reason I didn’t do that is because I live way out in the country, so it’s a 2-hour drive to the nearest bricks and mortar retailer.
Well, I have to defend e-bay (horrors!) although they don’t deserve it. And I purchase off there quite a bit … when I shop around, I always check the prices everywhere. Occasionally ebay wins out. Sometimes I get really annoyed at apparently volume sellers who act amateurish. They wait 2 weeks without shipping, and then tell me their mother got sick and went in the hospital or their sister or whatever. I’m not unfeeling, by the way. This actually really happened to me and I shipped everything out then went to the hospital. They make up excuses for why they are not prompt, which bothers me.
The problem is getting to be the infiltration of Chinese merchandise EVERYWHERE on the net (as well as our brick and mortar stores). It’s bad enough we’ve been importing the junk for years. Sorry to sound like this, but it’s been damaging to our economy, and now they has not been enough–they are stalking the boards and I get e-mails daily about some new site selling electronics and designer things. I mean they’ve been selling on ebay for a while, but they can’t do that real well–most people don’t trust them, even if they can get something cheap, they don’t want it shipping all the way from China. I tried buying from China a couple years ago. Generic mp3 and mp4 players. They lied about the product, they lie about role in the line of business (they are distributors, not manufacturers), they pretended they actually had to “make” the one I chose for a sample, they just lie. The stuff was ok but they are a dime a dozen, and they’re buggy. Junky. If Apple makes the stuff over there, they have quality control in place, trust me. They couldn’t market this stuff.
So, they figured out a way around that! They’re getting American sellers and others to sell for them. I truly believe the intermediary has no idea. They’ve been selling for a while, racked up good feedback, and then began selling for the crook overseas in the east. The crooks overseas move from one body to another. The only reason I am not shut down, is because I make phone calls, want to speak to a person, want to see what I’m selling. I’m not just worried about my money, I can’t take responsibility for scamming someone. I don’t want karma like that.
And the rep at Paypal tells me … (sit down for this) “you have to trust people.”
Sorry for the rant. But really, it’s not ebay that’s so bad, but the infestation of immorality which pervades the marketplace. If those sellers could break through on the Amazon front, they’d be selling there too. They’ll figure it out. Give them time!
The thing is, Paypal says “you have to trust people” but they have this Buyer Protection thing. The whole point of that is that I don’t trust people and I want to make sure someone has my back. But nobody does if I buy through Paypal. That’s my gripe.
If I had made the same purchase with my credit card, instead of Paypal Buyer Deception, I would have disputed the charge and gotten my money back. That’s why the CC companies are much better at detecting fraud than Paypal – it costs them more because their guarantees actually mean something.
And there’s my rant!