Paypal Buyer Protection on EBay is Worthless
The title pretty much says it. Paypal Buyer Protection will not help you if you have a problem and need to dispute a purchase on EBay. Simple as that.
I was looking to buy a copy of Microsoft Office Home and Student Edition. I looked at my favorite places: Tiger Direct, Amazon, BestBuy and decided to have a look at EBay, though I’m always a little leery of EBay. It had what looked like a legitimate copy from a legitimate seller. It was a UK seller, with almost 500 sales and over a 98% positive rating. The description said the item was a retail copy, not OEM, which was important to me because the retail version can be legally installed on three machines, but the OEM version is only for one machine. Everything looked good, but I was still skeptical. Finally, one thing tipped the balance: it was guaranteed by Paypal Buyer Protection. I’m a fan of Paypal, so it seemed like a good bet.
A day later, I got notification that my software had shipped. The email was funny — several characters that wouldn’t render. Uh oh. So I clicked the tracking info and it was shipping from Shanghai! Okay, could be a drop shipper, but it wasn’t looking good. I logged into my EBay account and all trace of the purchase had been wiped clean. The seller account was gone. All information about my purchase was gone. Double uh oh.
So I call EBay. They can’t help because the seller has been kicked out and they won’t arbitrate at this point. They tell me I will have to wait until the item arrives and then take it up with Paypal if there’s a problem.
The item arrives and it’s a recordable DVD with a handwritten product code on it. I call Paypal and they will not cover it until I return it. I’m livid. This person is an obvious criminal without a let to stand on. If I had put it on my credit card, I would cancel my charge and end of story. With Paypal, not only do I need to return the item, I need to return it with tracking. As it turns out, the cheapest way of tracking the item will only track it out of the US, but not to the seller’s door. To do that, I would need to spend more than the cost of a the software at Amazon.
Alas, it’s a sunk costs question. No way to recoup my money. So I went back to Amazon and bought it there. Brand new, retail version, three licesnes that validated with Microsoft. Only about $5 more than the Chinese ripoff artist.
Lessons learned:
- Never buy software on EBay. There’s just no way to tell unless it’s a merchant you know.
- Avoid Paypal for online purchases and use a real credit card with reasonable dispute policies
- Scammers are making brands more powerful and making it hard for small merchants to make a living on the web.
Filed under: Consumer Chronicles
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Wish I had read this message before I place the order from ebay. I too, was hesitate to order but then saw the buyer protection program and thinks I am protected. Turns out the only way paypal buyer protection program will work if you sent the item back with tracking. The item is from China and it would cost $27 just to have a tracking number. Lesson learn, never believe what paypal says about your purchase are 100% protected.
Sorry you got stuck too. All I can say is tell people about it. Send them to this page or a similar one. It definitely blows, because one thing I like about Paypal is I don’t give my credit card number to people. Too bad their dispute resolution is so worthless.
Hi!
Dear,sir!
I’ve paid DHgate with paypal for a particular item Oct. 13, 2009 10:56:16 PDT
Transaction ID: 8R7070062N151135G,but the Company to date do not provide any clear answer.One day I receive
confirmation ,that the money has been received, but after a few hours the opposite pattern, that money has been not
received.Pay pal multiplexed, has confirmed that the account has money dhgate is creditedi.On my questions DHgate not
answered.Can you something help me,please?Or ,must I write to Minisrty of Justice, the People’s Republic of China
Address: No.10 Nandajie, Chaoyangmen, Chaoyang District, Beijing 100020, China and National Bureau of Corruption
Prevention of China
NO.2 Guang’An Men Nan Jie, Xuanwu Disrict, Beijing 100053
What is better?
Also note that Paypal Buyer Protection, limited as it is, is ONLY for items purchased on eBay. I bought two ipods on iOffer for $136 U.S. and paid by Paypal. I received a string of plastic beads. I filed a dispute and claim with Paypal, but was told that there was nothing they would do. Had I paid by credit card, I could have disputed the charge for non-receipt. But because Paypal facilitated the payment, I have no recourse: if I challenge the charge, Paypal will simply re-charge my card.
Paypal is NOT the safe, reliable payment system that they pretend to be. I got scammed and got NO support. Paypal is the only place where the seller’s account information can be accessed, and they won’t do a damn thing. Too bad I filled out their customer support survey BEFORE this transaction. My answers would have been VERY different!
Viktor, I wish I knew. My purchase was not that expensive and figured the Chinese authorities, who normally pay no attention to pirated software, would not care.
Rob, you learned the lesson I learned. It’s sad really, because I have a vacation rental property and Paypal offers a great system for small-timers like me (but for a bit more money, does Costco). It’s really convenient for me to send out invoices and manage payments. And I still use Paypal to send money around and make purchases with trusted merchants.
But Paypal sells this whole thing like
1. They are giving your some peace of mind with Buyer Protection, when it is vastly inferior to anything offered by credit cards.
2. They are keeping your information more private than the credit card companies. I don’t know about that, but if I keep my paypal balance small and don’t link it to my main bank account, my downside risk should be low.
I had a problem with a website that I bought items from. I only got part of my order ( I ordered books and was sent only 3 of the 4 that I ordered) After I paid, the company told me the book was back ordered even though they have these books listed “in stock” on their website. The company is refusing to contact me in regards to my request for a refund on the book I never received so I filed a paypal dispute, and paypal won’t help me because I didn’t purchase the items from ebay. They told me that their buyer protection only covers items bought on ebay. I think as long as I use their service, they should protect my purchase no matter where I buy from. I am highly disappointed in paypal. I kept getting “auto responses” with no real person to answer my emails. Paypal used to be a lot better than this.
[WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us ’0 which is not a hashcash value.
I ALWAYS pay with a credit card, paypal is no use they never get the money back. So i pay with a credit card with a “safe” number and i am at ease with my purchases. BUT to be honest i have gone more to amazone than ebay better protection and customer service
ebay Buyer Beware!
I don’t think very many buyers realize that they, not the seller,
may assume the risk for items under $250 that are not
delivered.
As in – you won the auction – you paid, and then you never got
the item. And then ebay basically tells you to go to hell when
you contact their resolution center.
No item. No money. You lose. Thanks sucker.
Ebay’s “eBay Buyer Protection” has some VERY fine print.
See if you can find it.
Just saying. Check it out.
Well Don, that pretty much sums it up. I actually ran into a Paypal employee at a conference and he pretty much confirmed that there are a lot of complaints about the PP Buyer Protection… and EBay Buyer Protection is a joke, but from what I hear from sellers, the seller protection is pretty crappy too.
Small tip, I ve been conned a few times now using paypal. If you get a copied DVD (as oppose to the gen one you ordered), company claiming to unlock ure phone, then telling you to go to a phone shop. Or any other purchase that is now what you paid for. Dont mess around or waste your time saying you received it. File a non-receipt claim, fraudelent sellers usally dont have proof of postage or dont want to even admit to the post office what their selling. In all the 5 cases I filed in the last 4 years Ive won and the seller cant do jack. You can even stick their rubbish back in the post to them with no postage on, they have the option to go and collect and pay for it then. Dont be honest where these criminals are concerned.
I always think honesty is the best policy, but in the face of these cheats and thieves, your approach sounds like the only one that could possibly work.
I just got off a phone call with paypal today. Make that a few. The first go-round, they put me on hold for 20 minutes, while their “specialist” was checking details for me. Finally, when I got to conclude the conversation, they assured me I would be protected in the case of fraud (not just on e-bay), but if I send money for goods that I do not receive, or someone on my behalf does not receive– I will get my money back, if I file a dispute. They also assured me that even if the vendor/merchant has fled the country, closed their account, etc., Paypal will foot the bill, if need be.
I am a seller on ebay and was looking for other merchandise to sell for. I’ve been approached by numerous individuals to sell their wares. As I have all excellent feedback, and do provide honesty and good service, I’m skeptical of these sellers, and try to investigate with each one, starting with a phone conversation, some probing on company, and asking for samples. I can’t even get that far.
Basically I think that UK seller that was mentioned here was suckered in like some are trying to do to me, and it was probably no fault of his own. He set up relations with a foreign seller and got duped too–meanwhile his account got closed down, and the original merchandiser is off to another ebay seller, well-rated with history. They are finding them all over. I am seeing them on freelancer.com.
They have nothing to lose. I have my history and reputation to lose. I just don’t want to lose my money also.
I purchased software from a woman back around the holidays. It was for regedit. I used it with no apparent problem, although the seller wasn’t the best at customer service, and I had to wait a while to receive this magic number (an odd assortment of characters I thought) to legitimize the software (bought very cheaply, by the way==about $7.00). When I tried to use it again, I couldn’t. It was limited to a trial or something like that. This seller was shut down, I got my money back, but I suspect she didn’t even know what hit her. Just a suspicion as she later popped up following me on twitter, oddly. She didn’t seem the scamming sort, and I felt like she was used as an intermediary as I’m trying to be–selling other people’s things.
Probably not much worth the risk.
Syl, I don’t think there’s any possible way that a seller sends you digital goods and then later a registration key without that being an illegal transaction. Software will get sold one of two ways
– either an affiliate relation that takes the buyer to the vendor site and the salesperson gets a commission through an affiliate deal, but the purchase and issue of the registration key all take place on the vendor site,
– it comes in a nice box and with a registration key on the proof of purchase.
The woman you’re talking about in your last example is a software pirate or is utterly ignorant of the basics of copyright law and is aiding and abetting software pirates.
It’s possible in my case that the UK seller was a drop shipper who got scammed, but more than likely, I don’t think there ever was a UK seller and it was a profile from this guy in China.
I must say, it’s a very smart scam – figure out what return shipping cost is, find a product where the legitimate retail price is slightly below that price, send illegal goods, and then let the customer complain and try to get his money back, which will cost him more than just forgetting the whole thing and going down to Best Buy and getting a real copy. I should say that part of the reason I didn’t do that is because I live way out in the country, so it’s a 2-hour drive to the nearest bricks and mortar retailer.
Well, I have to defend e-bay (horrors!) although they don’t deserve it. And I purchase off there quite a bit … when I shop around, I always check the prices everywhere. Occasionally ebay wins out. Sometimes I get really annoyed at apparently volume sellers who act amateurish. They wait 2 weeks without shipping, and then tell me their mother got sick and went in the hospital or their sister or whatever. I’m not unfeeling, by the way. This actually really happened to me and I shipped everything out then went to the hospital. They make up excuses for why they are not prompt, which bothers me.
The problem is getting to be the infiltration of Chinese merchandise EVERYWHERE on the net (as well as our brick and mortar stores). It’s bad enough we’ve been importing the junk for years. Sorry to sound like this, but it’s been damaging to our economy, and now they has not been enough–they are stalking the boards and I get e-mails daily about some new site selling electronics and designer things. I mean they’ve been selling on ebay for a while, but they can’t do that real well–most people don’t trust them, even if they can get something cheap, they don’t want it shipping all the way from China. I tried buying from China a couple years ago. Generic mp3 and mp4 players. They lied about the product, they lie about role in the line of business (they are distributors, not manufacturers), they pretended they actually had to “make” the one I chose for a sample, they just lie. The stuff was ok but they are a dime a dozen, and they’re buggy. Junky. If Apple makes the stuff over there, they have quality control in place, trust me. They couldn’t market this stuff.
So, they figured out a way around that! They’re getting American sellers and others to sell for them. I truly believe the intermediary has no idea. They’ve been selling for a while, racked up good feedback, and then began selling for the crook overseas in the east. The crooks overseas move from one body to another. The only reason I am not shut down, is because I make phone calls, want to speak to a person, want to see what I’m selling. I’m not just worried about my money, I can’t take responsibility for scamming someone. I don’t want karma like that.
And the rep at Paypal tells me … (sit down for this) “you have to trust people.”
Sorry for the rant. But really, it’s not ebay that’s so bad, but the infestation of immorality which pervades the marketplace. If those sellers could break through on the Amazon front, they’d be selling there too. They’ll figure it out. Give them time!
The thing is, Paypal says “you have to trust people” but they have this Buyer Protection thing. The whole point of that is that I don’t trust people and I want to make sure someone has my back. But nobody does if I buy through Paypal. That’s my gripe.
If I had made the same purchase with my credit card, instead of Paypal Buyer Deception, I would have disputed the charge and gotten my money back. That’s why the CC companies are much better at detecting fraud than Paypal – it costs them more because their guarantees actually mean something.
And there’s my rant!
Buyer protection sucks and has made me not sell anything on Ebay for more than a year. When I am told I cannot accept checks or money orders and am forced to use PayPal they lost me as a seller. They say “It is for my protection”. What protection? If I do not get the money order or check and it does not clear the bank they do not get there item they bought. All it is about is greed! Plus they bought out PayPal, go figure!
I had similar experience, but it was with a COMPUTER. There should be fiable Ebay competitor. There policies are horrible.
I paid for a cell phone $172.88 by paypal through eBay shipped from China! It’s been 3+ months and ever received it! They stole my money and never sent me anything!
What protection plans?! Neither eBay nor paypal helped me, see this:http://reviews.ebay.com/Warning-Enjoyment-Shop-SCAM-SONY-ERICSSON-T707-T707I_W0QQugidZ10000000018546149
I also trusted Ebay & Paypal because of their so called “buyer protection” which is useless indeed! At least, I only lost $17 to a seller who obviously knew how Paypal wouldn’t do anything and never bothered to respond. Now I’m using a CC for all my purchases and will avoid paypal at all cost. The only items I will buy from Ebay now are less than $5. Just not worth the risk to buy or sell high value items through such a horrible lying company anymore.
Ebay definitely needs some competition.
But US Sellers are hurt I had a buyer lilylotus52 buy software from me then use buyer protection to get a refund and of course keep my product on her computer … she even said she liked the bulk of my product but due to her computer could not view some of the videos. I am out $120 with shipping and she gets rewarded by ebay buyer protection … geez … I am letting my account go into collections I am not paying ebay for this unjust refund!
Terri,
That’s a bummer and I’ve heard a lot of complaints from the merchant side too. It’s obviously a broken system.
I sold a phone on craigslist, and the guy who bought it is claiming the screen has some bright spots on it. It did NOT have these spots when I sent it. For all I know, he did something to the phone. So does anyone know, is paypal going to expect me to take back damaged merchandise?? The phone was sold as used, and he admits that everything on it works…
Ebay (and Paypal) are nothing more than massive failures at this point. We got screwed by this guy in Utah, called “thunderboltboy”, who bought a very good condition (used) MP3 player and he claimed it didnt work. We tested it and packed it WORKING. He claimed it didnt work and wanted his money back. Foolish us, we didnt record the serial number, so we refused the return request. Not only that, it was an “as is” auction of a 5 year old MP3 player. He STILL wanted his money back. Ebay doesnt believe in “buyer beware”, even if we werent scamming him. They sided with him though he was instructed that he could KEEP the MP3 player as well! So we lost the money AND the player – which worked fine.
Talk about scam artists. Its a COLONY of [scam] artists on Ebay. I sold my stock and closed my account and so did my wife. We’re never going to use Ebay again.
Interesting to hear from merchants too.
Mike, why did this guy get to keep and MP3 player when I had to return my illegal DVD from a person who had been utterly banned and erased from EBay for his illegal activities?
I just don’t get that. Is it official policy to always side with the scammer? I’d like to here of just one legit case where EBay/Paypal buy protection actually protected the victim instead of the scammer.
Well people who are happy with their experience probably wouldn’t be looking for help, so that’s why we don’t hear from him. Paypal sided with the guy who claimed the iPhone he bought wasn’t as advertised, but I don’t know if he got to keep the phone, and got his money back, or if he had to send the phone somewhere. But he got his money back, and I didn’t have to pay it or take the damaged phone back. Maybe they are treating buyer protection more like insurance now.
Yeah, I know. I just wish this information could get out there *before* people get ripped off the first time.
But that’s interesting that the person didn’t need to return the item and you didn’t lose your money. I can see how people could scam this (send item to friend, friend says item was broken, gets money back, merchant sells item again).
But I think Mike’s situation and mine is more typical – someone other than EBay/Paypal actually does lose cash out of pocket.
Hi
It’s pretty easy for Virginian’s to file in Small Claims court. I suggest you include all court fees in your claims and any other expenses. It sounds like PayPal doesn’t provide the buyer protection and has absurd bureaucracy to insure they never pay. A judge will hand the award to the little guy. Make sure you save all of the inane automated emails to show the judge and bring the complete counterfeit xbox game for example, and shipping envelop as evidence. First call PayPal and tell them you are going to file in small claims court. They might just decide to give you your money! :)
I do not much of the real situation inside paypal but i did get my refund and i get to keep the item. I am guessing that i often buy from top seller,so i think that they consider refund. I have deal with seller from china and they are very nice to me. They are willing to return my item and send me refund. I was buying A ROBERTO CAVALLI shirt. My worst experience was with a seller that refuse to give refund despite that i can return the item if i am not satisfied. Paypal did not bother my hearing. I am fortunate enough that i did not experience fraudulent.
Three years later, still the same. I bought so called solid gold jewellery off ebay Australia from a buyer with 400+ positive reviews. Three days later seller is no longer a registered seller, I lost transaction details. Few weeks later received pieces of plastic in mail. Tried to go through Paypal AU buyer refund, have to pay minimum registered mail to send back to China or else no refund.
Pay Pal told me I should be grateful I even get a refund, as their other customers are. Seller thinks I’m going to cut my losses and not bother to return it so they can make the $? I’d think I’d pay for the shipping so none of my funds go into that grubby fraudster’s hands.
Sorry to hear that Laura. As you say, the same arrogance and BS from EBay and PayPal. Sad.
This is a comment on the post that was made by “Harry on
June 25, 2010 at 4:42 pm”
That’s a great tip thank you for sharing!
Although, you could still be burned if the seller is willing to provide proof of shipping.
I won’t bore you with all of the details but last December I bought three Best Buy gift cards on ebay (I’ve done this dozens of times over the last 10 years of being a member) totaling $1200 (from three different sellers). One of them tried to scam me ($485) and sent me an envelope with a business card instead, BUT, get this, he shipped it with a tracking number (he knew how to play the game indeed!).
When I went to PayPal for help they asked the seller to provide proof that he had sent the gift card, he turn gladly provided the URL to the USPS tracking number, and PayPal said, “great, thanks for playing, nothing to see here move along Mr. Buyer.”
In other words, PayPal’s, way of corroborating is only by tracking number (in all fairness, I’m not sure what else they could do). At that point, I kept my cool and called my credit card company; 10 minutes later I had the charge reversed!
That’s why for the last ten years I’ve been telling anyone that will listen, IF YOU HAVE AN OPTION ALWAYS USE A CREDIT CARD!!! Why, because no one cares more about their money than the owner, in this case the bank/company who issued you the card.
Now, before I get flamed, allow me to clarify, make sure you have the solvency to pay the bill in FULL when it comes do or else DON’T BUY SAID ITEM AT ALL!
Hey thanks Sam! That’s pretty much the conclusion I’ve come to. Paypal provides no useful protection.
promises by paypal to ” warn you in good tiem” in the case of a dispute, is dishonest. they do NOT do so, and when the time allowed for the dispute resolution has come and gone, they glibly announce that the matter is concluded. be aware people, this organization is one way traffic – customer relations do not exist
E-Bay and its partner-in-crime (PayPal), are nothing but licensed thieves, and their so-called “Buyer Protection” programs are equally criminal in nature.
I bought a $1500 item on E-Bay and the Seller offered “expedited” shipping if I (the Buyer) would pay an added premium shipping fee for the item via PayPal, but immediately after payment, the Seller shipped the item via the cheapest possible means (USPS Parcel Post), pocketing over $120 in personal profit. Delivery of the item then took over THREE WEEKS!
I filed claims against the Seller with E-Bay and PayPal, and both claims were denied by both entities. I then filed negative feedback against the Seller and E-Bay deleted the negative feedback entry the same day. I then CLOSED both accounts and I’ll never use either one of their “services” ever again. Done! They are liars and cheats, and you’d have to be an absolute idiot to use either one IMHO.
Randall – sorry to hear of another bad experience :-(
i bought 28 days ago Guru script,it was a freelancer clone Mapfreelance script…it was a Multilangual script,but later relise that when translating,it was not supporting my own language characters…i did chat with this people from support chanel…they worked on it for fixing the issue,at the end,i was told that would refund…i did wait 14 days,no refund noting,later i dispute on paypal,i used to have full screen shot of our conversation that i would refunded…all information was there on my GURUSCRIPT ACCOUNT…i gave all to paypal too…they told me,we are investigating,in the end they told me that we can not protect you because it is not a physical item….WHICH MEANS NEVER BUY GURUSCRIPT AND NEVER BUY ANY SOFTWARE OR PHYSICAL ITEM WITH PAYPAL….THEY REALY DONT CARE YOU
i am very honest you all…
regards
Officially just got screwed by Paypal! Like Laura buying something from china and the guy tells me to return the defective item to china! Of course I returned it! Seller doesn’t reply acts fishy and so I made a claim and escalated it. I sent in all my evidence and upon closing my case in favor of the seller due to the fact that I did not send it to a certain address stated by paypal….how could I? I sent it back before I even made a claim in which seller gave me address!!!!! Spoke to papal rep…. All he can tell me is it’s unfortunate that the seller knows our loophole! WTF! I asked him is there a loophole where I can screw the seller back? Paypal sucks! I didn’t use my credit card to make that purchase….had cash in pp!
So can I use Paypal’s loophole to screw him over? Seriously thinking of it! Email me at lambien@gmail.com if u want to help w the cause!!!
So can I use Paypal’s loophole to screw him over? Seriously thinking of it! Email me at lambien@gmail.com if u want to help w the cause!!!
Another satisfied customer – sorry to hear it Thanh!
This is what I got from Paypal when the merchandise did not show
and I filed a complaint:
“We have decided in your favor, however, we were unable to recover any funds
from the seller’s account. As stated in the PayPal User Agreement, recovery
of funds associated with a Buyer Complaint cannot be guaranteed.”